Interview WILLEM DAFOE Interview with the Vampire As Told To The Phantom   PHANTOM How did you first get involved with the project? WILLEM DAFOE Pretty straightforward-Nic Cage called me up and told me he was sending the script along my way and I should take a look at it. And I did and I liked the script very much. I met with the director after seeing his film Begotten, and I liked how he talked about what he wanted to do, so I pretty much signed on then. And then we just had to find a Murnau. We got John Malkovich and that was that. PHANTOM Did you have to do a lot of preparation for the role? DAFOE The truth is I couldn't do that much preparation until I was in the prosthetics and the costume, because they really defined what I was to do so much. The only thing I could really do was just to, you know, orient myself to that period a little bit, look at some of Murnau's work and also decide what kind of accent I wanted to use. PHANTOM I was just going to ask that, because it's a silent-film character. DAFOE Right. Well, you know pretty much, just factually, that they mention the Tantras Mountains, so that puts you in Slovakia. So I went to a dialect guy and we tried to piece together what was somewhat authentic, although that wasn't a huge concern, and what was strong enough to give it the right character flavor but not so strong that he couldn't be understood. PHANTOM Did the facial prosthetics affect your speech at all? DAFOE Not really. PHANTOM It was pretty closely modeled on the original Nosferatu. DAFOE For the most part-you know, you meet something halfway in between. The idea would be to get as close to it as we could but, of course, we couldn't mix any of the original footage with footage of me, as far as closeups, so we had a kind of liberty. PHANTOM There are a few inserts from the original film. DAFOE There were-there were more than a few actually, but most of them were landscapes. There was one shot of Schreck, and that was when he was leading Gustav to his castle. PHANTOM Was it tough doing that makeup every day? DAFOE You know, there's a good side to it and a bad side. Yes, it's tedious, because it's four hours a day. And it's rough on your face and there's always kind of that worry that I might break out, that my skin would get so raw it couldn't take the prosthetics. But it never happened. But there was also something very nice about sitting in a chair and seeing the transformation that became like a meditation that was a nice preparation for the character. And also, one thing that was special about it was I was usually the first one there in the day and the last one to go home at night. So basically, most of the crew only knew me as Schreck! PHANTOM Have you played a role before where you've been totally unrecognizable? DAFOE Certainly not to this degree. In the theater, yes. But in film not so much. I've been in prosthetics before but not so extreme. Some people, I think, literally don't recognize me. I've heard stories of projectionists who said, "Well, where was Willem Dafoe? One of the main credits. I saw the whole film-where was he?" PHANTOM Both you and John Malkovich have very dynamic roles. Even though he's a semi-madman in it, he kind of steps back to let you have the larger presence as Schreck. DAFOE Well, certainly I've got the showier role, the more extreme role. He has a role that requires a different kind of delicacy. I'm afforded lots of room because I've got that wonderful mask to work with. PHANTOM Plus you play a non-actor pressured into being an actor. DAFOE Right. But actually I find that when you look at the film, Schreck is more over the top in his life than he is when he's within the film. PHANTOM Right, because then he's self-conscious. DAFOE Exactly. Which is kind of a charming notion. PHANTOM Had you ever worked with Malkovich before? DAFOE No, I hadn't. I barely knew him-I mean, I knew of him and we have lots of mutual friends and I've certainly always admired him and been aware of him. We have some superficial-or not-so-superficial, I'm not sure-similarities in our backgrounds and I just think he's a very good actor, and an interesting actor to watch. PHANTOM As far as you know, was there  much tinkering with the script? DAFOE If I remember from the first draft I saw to what we actually shot, it evolved and structurally there were some elements that changed, but in the actual shooting, for the most part we used the dialogue that was there. It's not like we improvised. PHANTOM You shot mostly on locations, in Luxembourg. DAFOE That's right. Which has many old castles-that was one of the attractions-and the other attraction was it's a good place to shoot film because they give you lots of financial incentives and this was by no means a big-budget film. PHANTOM What was your shooting schedule? DAFOE It wasn't so long-it was quite quick. Someone would have to check me on it, but it seems like it was six weeks. PHANTOM I loved the details in it, which are true-how a [silent] director would have music playing when he set up a scene- DAFOE It was quite well prepared. Elias had a very strong idea of what he wanted to shoot. Now sometimes this was probably compromised by the fact that we had to shoot fast but sometimes that's a nice discipline to have because it keeps you from sitting, allows you to kind of get on with it. The director had made his last film quite some time ago; he'd been living with this in his head for a long time and I think sometimes it's helpful to have something that forces you to pull the trigger. PHANTOM Shadow is your first horror role. DAFOE Yeah, but you know, a role is a role is a role is a role. You don't play a horror role any differently, you don't have that in your consciousness. It is what it is. You're telling a story, you deal with the circumstances around you. PHANTOM You've worked with some of the most intense, idiosyncratic directors in your career. What were your impressions playing Christ and working for Scorsese? DAFOE Well, that was a dream project, in the respect that Marty's a great filmmaker and this was a film that he had made in his head for many, many years. Once again, it was a low-budget film, so it had an immediacy to it and a real stripped-down quality, but he placed me in such a beautiful way that I just felt engaged all through the production in a really profound, strong way-and that's what you look for when you're an actor. Basically, I'm always looking for a good setup. And if I get a good setup, then I can do my job. And God knows, Marty gave it to me. PHANTOM And that was very much an actors' movie-it wasn't a spectacle. DAFOE No, it was real stripped-down. Although he created the world so completely and we shot in such a fashion that the real world dropped away in such a way that it really helped with the pretending. He just made it a very engaging and comfortable experience. PHANTOM How was Oliver Stone to work for? DAFOE That's a while ago, but he was great to work with. Particularly Platoon was a very special movie to work on. What should be remembered is it was a little low-budget movie that was shot in the Philippines. And everybody was there doing it for themselves, most of all him. And then it kind of crossed over and got a lot of critical and popular response and that was particularly sweet. To tell you the truth, I remember this vividly: I did the movie because I wanted to do those things in the movie. It was gonna be a great adventure, and Oliver was an intriguing guy, 'cause then he was basically known as a screenwriter; I'd seen his movie Salvador and I thought it was great. That's why I did it, but I had this sinking feeling that it was gonna get misidentified and end up on a video shelf alongside kung-fu movies. Because at the time, the Vietnam War movies were like Rambo. And this didn't have the same kind of heroism, the same kind of Rocky/Hollywood melodrama; I wasn't sure it would reach a popular audience. PHANTOM In fact, if anything, it had more of a '70s attitude towards the war, which was no longer in fashion. DAFOE That's what was sweet about it; people were ready to get a new take on the war. PHANTOM One of my favorite roles of yours was Bobby Peru in [David Lynch's] Wild at Heart. DAFOE Oh yeah! Great setup and a really complete world. David's an artist, and when you enter his world, everything takes on a logic that may not be the logic of our world, but it becomes very clear to you what has to be done. So he, in a very direct, pragmatic way, pretty much told me how I was gonna look, and then he gave me such a strong external mask that it was really something to play with. Not terribly unlike Schreck-because I had those teeth that made me talk different, that made me feel different, that made me feel sleazy-he gave me a wild outfit. I think it was my idea to have a little pencil-thin moustache and slick down my hair. PHANTOM Love the motel room scene with Laura Dern. DAFOE That is just a well-written scene, yeah. Very well-written. Very special, got its finger on a certain kind of psychology that's not expressed too often. Very strong, but with enough ambiguity to let it remain complex. PHANTOM Speaking of pencil-thin moustaches, you also worked for John Waters. DAFOE Right. Very briefly. I mean, John I've known for years; my son's babysitter was a very close friend of his. So I met John many years ago and I just did a little part for him for fun. Cry-Baby. It was like a one-day thing; I played a prison guard. I spanked Johnny Depp on the bottom. PHANTOM You also worked, very recently, with David Cronenberg. DAFOE Right. Another gem. PHANTOM How is he to work with? DAFOE You know, I wish I could be a little more specific, but all these guys have a similar thing in common-they have a real personal take on things. And what I like is I like attaching myself to them and becoming an agent of their wishes, an agent of their story. I like being the doer in their story. He was a lot of fun to work with, he runs probably the most humane set you've ever been on in your life, he's a real gentleman, he's bright, he's funny; it's a real easy set. He's like a kid with his toys; he knows how to play with his preoccupations. PHANTOM And make them entertaining. DAFOE Yeah. He's very bright, so he always finds an interesting form. PHANTOM You also worked, even more recently, with Mary Harron in American Psycho, which, while some critics got it, I thought was underrated. DAFOE You know, I wasn't too clear what the reception was, but all I know is I thought she did an excellent job of adapting the book. I like the movie; it's very sly and very funny and very telling. PHANTOM I think some critics missed that or maybe were expecting something different. DAFOE Well, shame on them for having those kind of expectations. PHANTOM It didn't do too great in theaters. DAFOE I think it did fine. I wouldn't say that, you know? I mean, that's difficult to say, because you've gotta remember what a film's aspirations are. And I think anything that's that kind of perverse and ironic and sophisticated isn't going to have a huge mass audience. I think the distributors put it out there in a very respectable way and I think it did respectably. I don't think it ever had blockbuster written on it. The only reason I kind of bristle is I'm a little obsessed by this thing about we're so conscious of business-whether we're a champion of it or not-it creeps into our critical estimation of things, 'cause we're living in a consumer society. PHANTOM I hate that winner/loser mentality. DAFOE You know, it affects all of us, 'cause it happens to me too. Sometimes I don't see a film and I say, "Oh, I heard it wasn't very good." Well, that's bullshit, you know? Then I gotta really examine who I heard it from, and sometimes I realize I didn't hear it from anywhere, but I read the grosses or I saw not very interesting advertising blurbs. PHANTOM That's a problem. I think what it tends to do is, if a movie does well the first weekend, then it kind of enlists people to root for some corporation that put it out; they go see it because they want to be on the winning side. DAFOE Exactly. Advertising and getting people into a movie house have very little to do with the merits of a film. We know that from summer movies. Sometimes with summer movies everybody dubs them pieces of shit but they'll go anyway because they want to have their beach chatter. Know what the tribe is talking about. So, it's interesting; I'm a little fascinated by these things. PHANTOM I think video's great because a movie like American Psycho is gonna have a tremendously long life. And Shadow of the Vampire too, no matter how well it does [theatrically]. Video and DVD give movies a second chance, without that winner/loser thing. The money doesn't depend on instant turnover. DAFOE And it allows word of mouth time. With most pictures, even if it has word of mouth, if they don't give it enough publicity and advertising to hang in there until the word of mouth catches on, it's not gonna be on the screens by the time people get the word. PHANTOM You worked with Abel Ferrara also, in New Rose Hotel. DAFOE Right. All I can say is the good news is the bad news is the bad news is the good news! When you work with Abel, anything seems possible. But the truth is, anything isn't always possible. PHANTOM Right-I think that one didn't quite come out the way- DAFOE -we intended. He maintains yes. Well, I shouldn't even say-for people that do enjoy it, I don't want to pretend it's a different movie. It is what it is. But I feel we could have shot some more. PHANTOM It was a little murky- DAFOE I won't say. I'll just say we could have shot some more! PHANTOM Is there any particular category of film that you lean toward, either as a viewer or an actor? DAFOE As a viewer, I basically like dramatic stuff, usually dark stuff, where people have some sort of moral dilemma and then they make some kind of generous gesture and then something horrible happens to them. You know, I think the darkness reflects a certain kind of truth about how hard life is and I'm buoyed up by the fact in the view of how hard life is people still get it together to make these really generous and beautiful gestures in the face of that. And that inspires me, so I get turned on by that. Sometimes I see comedies and I think, "Damn, why don't I get a chance to do that?" There's nothing better than laughing, that's for sure. Sometimes I'll see like one of these real broad gross-out comedies and I'll get a big kick out of it, but usually they won't cast you in that kind of stuff. I think casting for comedy is really sort of moronic; it's usually if a guy has a comic persona, they'll put him in a comedy. Very few people know how to use actors in comedies, or they don't cast them that way. The thing about comedy is it's all timing. PHANTOM For box-office, they seem to like to rely on a comedy-identified name, like Jim Carrey. DAFOE Exactly. People go, "Oh yeah, he's funny; we want to go to laugh." PHANTOM They don't like it if they're not, like Cable Guy; if they try to do something different, they get boxed in that way. DAFOE That's true. PHANTOM You still work in theater quite a bit. DAFOE Oh yeah-that's what I do day-in, day-out, and then, you know, occasionally I'll do a movie when I find something that makes sense. PHANTOM Have you directed in theater? DAFOE No. I work with a company and we make our own theater pieces, sometimes they're plays and sometimes they're original theater pieces, but I always work with a very strong director, the same person, Elizabeth LeComte. It's the same group of people I've been working with for 23 years; we have our own theater downtown in Manhattan and our bread and butter is international touring. PHANTOM Is that tough, because you have an incredible list of movies? DAFOE Yeah, you know, I stay busy-I like to work. If you can call it work! PHANTOM No plans to direct at any point? DAFOE I don't think so. Not right now. As I get older and I start to work with younger directors, sometimes I've been around a camera more than they have, so I get my nose in, I have a different relationship with the director. I get my nose around the camera and around the mise en scene much more than I used to. And people sometimes ask me if I'd like to. But there's too many directors that I want to work with, one; two, I like performing too much; number three, I may change, but it's not really my personality; my personality is I like to be the thing itself. I don't like to be the person standing outside of the thing. I like the actual rush of performing. I don't like being responsible for the logistics, I don't like being responsible for what stuff means. I like getting in there and being it. Once I trust the material and once I find that the person that's trying to tell the story is someone that I trust, you know, then we go on this adventure and I try to serve their intentions. Willem Dafoe Videography Affliction (1997, Universal) American Psycho (1999, Universal) Animal Factory (1999, Artisan) Basquiat (1996, Miramax) Body of Evidence (1992, MGM) Born on the Fourth of July (1989, Universal) Clear and Present Danger (1994, Paramount) Cry-Baby (1990, Universal) The English Patient (1996, Miramax) eXistenZ (1999, Dimension) Faraway, So Close! (1993, Columbia/TriStar) Flight of the Intruder (1990, Paramount) The Hunger (1983, MGM) The Last Temptation of Christ (1988, Universal) Light Sleeper (1992, Artisan) Loveless (1983, Vestron, n.i.d.) Lulu on the Bridge (1998, Trimark) Mississippi Burning (1988, Orion) The New Rose Hotel (1998, Sterling) New York Nights (1984, Artisan) The Night and the Moment (1994, Touchstone) Off Limits (1987, Fox) Platoon (1986, Artisan) Roadhouse 66 (1984, Fox) Speed 2: Cruise Control (1997, Fox) Streets of Fire (1984, Universal) To Live & Die in L.A. (1985, Artisan) Tom & Viv (1994, Touchstone) Triumph of the Spirit (1989, Columbia/TriStar) White Sands (1992, Warner) Wild at Heart (1990, Media, n.i.d.) Copyright 2003 PhanMedia, Inc.